Every day we live our lives trying to create some semblance of meaning. Mostly, what we end up with are predictable days with friends, apartments, laundry and rent, and routine nights with cabs, bars, drinks and hangovers. For others still, life means an endless stream of schedules, shoots, call times, politics and bullshit. While the latter may seem fantastic, intriguing and yes, desirable to the owner of one of those lives, it’s still life; it still takes living. It’s still survival.
Through a daily outpouring of original poems, writer Marcos Johnson has honed an ability to perfectly capture the mundane moments of life in their raw states. So adept is he at this portrayal that he’s inspired a multi-media collaboration with his friends, photographer Michael Muller and actor Joaquin Phoenix. The result (an ongoing project) is a collection of poems and accompanying photographs bearing the title Another Night Upon Us, featuring visual interpretations dreamed up by the trio and shot by Muller, often with Phoenix as the subject. Whether face-down on grocery store linoleum or observing a silent traveler in a train station, Phoenix is comfortable playing a supporting role to the poem itself. There are no starring roles in everyday life.
Filter gathered the trio together to find out more about the collaboration, their current show at Los Angeles’ M+B Gallery, the book they have in the works, and what it’s like to create because you can, not just because it’s your job.
After reading Marcos’ poems, did you immediately have an idea of what you were going to shoot?
Joaquin Phoenix: Initially, we sat down and came up with a concept, but it’s since changed. We’ve been working on this for a year.
Michael Muller: Marcos was sending Joaquin poems; Joaq sent them to me and we started talking. Joaq is the creator of the actual concept.
Phoenix: It started with Marcos: He would send in poems about his problems. I read a couple and I loved them. His words had a severe, overwhelming desire to express themselves. Reading it, it seemed like there was nothing holding me back and I really liked that feeling. I thought it would be cool to mix images and Marcos’ words. So I talked to Michael about it and we all got together. Now Marcos and Michael have really taken it forward—Michael is the one who put together the show. It’s gone through these different phases; the initial concept was that I was going to play a character in each poem and then we didn’t really like that idea. It just became more...
Muller: Organic. Originally, me and Joaq went out, just the two of us—no assistants, no lights, no nothing—and shot six poems.
How did you select the poems to be shot?
Phoenix: Marcos sent me the emails and we started selecting ones we liked. We’d sit down and talk about what the energy or the idea would be and then we started gathering images. We’d be off doing a shoot for something else, thinking, “This is a great location for that poem.”
Muller: This is for a book. This show is a teaser.
So initially, you shot five or six poems, and then the concept started evolving?
Phoenix: Well, Marcos has written six hundred poems in the last year.
I got an e-mail from him saying, “Here’s some,” and he started with five poems, then all of a sudden there was another e-mail with 14 more...
Phoenix: I had to make a separate folder!
Muller: You had to make a separate e-mail address!
Phoenix: I had to get a new hard drive. I had to call IBM to make a server just to maintain the poems that were rolling in.
What was the hardest part of the process?
Muller: What we’re about to go do now, which is to edit. You can only share so many at the first show. Editing is the hardest part, because there are so many poems; you could use each one of them and it’s just a matter of finding what is strongest. It’s a three-act; there’s a storyline that goes through in keeping it consistent. It’s not all dark, there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
Marcos Johnson: You know, it’s funny: when they mention the editing process, it’s almost like I feel that I should stop writing so that we can all just stop and edit. But I can’t do that.
Well, the story’s not finished.
Phoenix: I don’t think any of us knew what was gonna come of this. There wasn’t really any end result in mind. It’s just what happens when friends get together.
Muller: This is pure art, creating. No rules, no one telling us what to do or how to do it, no politics. That’s the most fun part of all this.
That’s also part of the beauty of this concept. The words come out and at you; it’s direct. It’s like you’re hanging out with a friend who starts telling you a detailed story. But some of the poems are very dark. How do you connect with those parts?
Phoenix: It’s not about connecting with them. But again, it isn’t necessarily the specific subject matter of the poems that draws you in, but rather somebody’s overwhelming need to express it. Marcos is one of those people who immediately works through whatever he’s experienced. I could never quite see how someone could turn around whatever is going on in their life and put it down into words, so that’s what I thought was really admirable: the fact that he was doing it and that he wasn’t censoring himself.
But as far as connecting with that…I’ve had very dark places in my life. So, for me, it’s very easy to go back there. Unless you’ve been there, it’s hard to recreate or get into that vibe and not be uncomfortable. So, aesthetically speaking, to take the pictures or be in places that I used to be, it’s uncomfortable and yet it’s still...very familiar.
Johnson: That word “dark” can be so overused. There has to be some light in there. If there wasn’t light, then there wouldn’t be a poem. I don’t think I’m capable of writing a work truly that dark. And there has to be hope. Otherwise, what the fuck’s the point? With the flame completely blown out, I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you.
Phoenix: It doesn’t seem like it’s somebody examining what they’re saying or thinking about, or whether it’s considered dark or light. That’s what its value is, that it’s just being expressed regardless. It has this certain raw expression.
One of the universal beauties of poetry is that everyone interprets it in their own way. Is it more difficult for you when people are seeing a visual image that interprets it for them?
Phoenix: The photos themselves are open for interpretation...
Muller: But some people look at the photo first and then read the poem.
That said, how does your collaborative process work? Is it the poem first and then the photo?
Johnson: At this point, Michael could go shoot whatever and send me a picture and I could probably put a poem to it.
Muller: A lot of times, I’ll just know. I’ll be shooting and think, “This is a beautiful image,” and send it off to Marcos. We get poems everyday. I’ll remember, “There’s a poem about motherhood,” and then take a picture for that. It’s not, “Here’s the poem in my hand and I’m gonna go shoot...” I never work like that. I just get a general idea and then go organically with what happens. The more organic and spontaneous it is, the better it works.
Phoenix: It’s in flux. You probably thought about this interview and the structure of this and how you might write the story, but now you’re open to seeing what happens. Maybe you have these questions written down and then the conversation takes you somewhere else. So, in some sense, this has been an elongated version of that. The best results have occurred when we’ve been open to whatever’s happened. And Marcos has felt a freedom and inspiration to write what he’s wanted, as opposed to feeling like we were dictating what direction to go in.
Johnson: I don’t like to write like that. I’ve never tried it, really.
Muller: We go off of him for the most part, because that’s what it’s about. It’s just words…
Phoenix: ...and that’s where it started.
Muller: He’s the anchor and we’re the tentacles.
Johnson: [laughs] We’re in trouble if I’m the anchor.
In your writing, do you see any universal themes?
Johnson: Just survive, and do it with as much grace and dignity as possible.
A lot of these poems do seem like they’re about survival, how to cope with situations or how to deal with where you are.
Johnson: Or to come out of them through the other side.
Phoenix: Or just to acknowledge them.
Some of these poems are one shot, some become 15. It’s just your interpretation; you’re telling a story.
Phoenix: Yeah, but it’s not even necessarily interpreting; it’s being inspired.
What would you like people to take away?
Johnson: That anyone can write if they want to. And that the impossible can happen.
Muller: I would like for people to take away from this the fact that they can look at these pictures and almost be looking in the mirror; to realize they’re human and not to judge what they’re looking at. Everyone goes through different phases in their life, and we’re all on an even playing field. I want them to stop in these moments and reflect on the past, the present, the future. That’s what I usually try to get across with images—to make people think about themselves.
Phoenix: I’m not in it for any end result. It is what it is. It’s out there, and however people want to interpret it doesn’t really make a difference to me. That’s how I feel about everything I do. I really believe that the process is the only important thing and that’s really all that I’m in it for, to have this experience with these guys. I don’t really care if anyone ever sees it.
I don’t mean any offense to my partners. All we can do is what’s in front of us. If Marcos enjoys writing these and continues to do that, then that’s what he should be doing. If this is nothing, if this interview doesn’t happen, if this show doesn’t happen, it doesn’t matter. What’s happened is that three people have gotten together and shared these ideas and had this experience. And I’m giving myself far too much credit because my involvement has been limited…
Muller: Liar.
Phoenix: ...but that’s really what it’s about and I think that—and I’m sorry if this is pretentious, but that is my forté—what any kind of an artistic endeavor is about is the experience. Because it is completely subjective and I don’t think you can dictate what you want it to be.
Just like a poem. That’s the same reason you write, not because you’re expecting anybody to read it; you write it because you want to write it.
Phoenix: The big picture is that we’ve had a lot of fun doing this. When we went out and did those pictures we were like little kids. It was a fun adventure.
Muller: It was like picking up a camera when you’re 6. You don’t know what it is and you have fun going, “Oh my God!” We could stop right now. But I won’t stop until the day we have to go in and nail her down because there’s just so much space on the walls. |
